Anyway, I was having a chat with my extremely well informed nephew who tends (I imagine) to wish I wasn't quite so emphatic in my pursuit of Biblical truths, when we had a moment. He is father to the beautiful Genevieve, my grandniece whom I would forgive anything. I asked him, "Is it Biblical or from Benjamin Franklin that, "Spare the rod and spoil the brat" comes from?
He demurred that his own daughter received the occasional touch of a hand in a non-aggressive manner to let her know that she should do something different. Hell, I remember getting paddled 15 times in 5th grade (in a Christian school)for breathing out of place in choir practice. What this says to me is, can we evolve beyond bad social norms and still be consistent with Biblical teaching?
To believe that every written word in the Bible is perfect and true requires beating children with rods to be consistent, otherwise we can overlook other culturally outdated notions like vehement opposition to love between members of the same sex.
Absolutism is a stern master. When you believe something is 100% true, there are no corners to cut.
5 comments:
regarding opposition to love between members of the same sex. To what are you referring?
I love you, Jeff. I really do. I delight in your presence, and really appreciate hearing the thoughts from your creative brain. Thinking of you makes me smile. I love you. I have many such lovers, all my gender. This is one of my better qualities, and I have never been opposed in this by the church.
Oh, you might mean sexual activity outside of the realm of a monogamous heterosexual marriage. Yes...there is a lot of opposition to that. You have pointed out that Jesus seemed less hung up about it than the religious ones of his time. But my experience has been that sex and the focus on it ( and our "rights"?) has messed up more relationships than it has enhanced. Sex is a powerful [urge? force? instinct?] and there should be talk about controlling it's tendencies, in individuals, as they then relate to society at large, at least.
e.g. I think we all agree that perpetrators of child Porn deserve the hell you alluded to, if there was such a place. We all agree, therefore that there are moral standards. To cast aspersions on some, while ranting others, seems a bit misguided...albeit not as misguided as claiming God's imprimatur (SP?) on one's mores.
You know Steve, it's my personal opinion that sex between consenting adults is rarely a problem; rather it's the incredible energy that goes into trying to prevent it, make guilty those who do what nature insists they do, let the church determine who gets to do what to whom and when.
Indiscriminate, non-consensual sex with animals, children or the mentally impaired is obviously wrong. But I can't think of anything sexual and legal that any two people of any gender would like to do are wrong.
God created sex, you believe.
You remember being a 15 year old boy, I believe.
What kind of warped creator would then say, "Don't"?
It's my personal opinion and experience that consensual sex between consenting adults is often problematic, regardless of religious orientation.
e.g.
I was on another blog talking about school vouchers. One commenter had asked the anti voucher host if he was against competition. That is a sacred cow of free enteriseniks world over...well, at least the ones born with silver spoons in their mouth and firmly camped at the uphill end of the playing feild. and I was making the point that, although I love competition in many things, like Cars ( and therefore drive a Toyota and two Kias) there are areas where competition undermines, rather than encourages excellence.
One area is public schools. We want excellence, and will not get it by putting a gun or a butcher knife to the throat of the budget of a school that is trying. I asked the guy if he thought a voucher type system would help him be a better husband. I love Shyrel, and want to be the best husband I can, and do everything I can to make her happy. I assume the same with you and Liz. My gut says that this is an area where the threat of competition will hinder, rather than help the drive for excellence. For me to be the best husband to her I can be, there needs, I humbly submit, to be a mutual assurance that even if she meets a hunk and is mad at me, she will not voucher around on me, and vice versa. Like I said, I have seen this desire for fidelity in male and female, and in religious and unreligious...maybe the link was a shared sense of inadequacy.
Bottom line: it seems to me to go against human nature to reduce our sexuality, and its relational benefits to animal instinctual behavior.
but I have been wrong before in this area.
WHOA!!! I though I had specified unmarried and apparently did not. My bad. I absolutely believe in fidelity once a choice has been made and vows taken.
I stand corrected.
Like I said; I really love you and delight in the glimpses of your incredible intelligence and intellectual honesty. To say you "absolutely believe in fidelity..." may be lost on a casual reader. You are choosing words perfectly to express your faith based belief rather than ascribe a scientific, or naturalistic base for your point of view of fidelity. One thing I love about your rants: you are incredibly accurate in expression. Poetry of sorts. May I humbly suggest that in so believing, you are closer to the biblicists than the naturalists or evolutionists?
Speaking of 15 year old boys caused me to think back on when I was 15. That was the best year of my school life. That was the year I attended an inner city missionary school, and was not introduced to, but immersed in the Chicano culture of East Los Angeles. That is where I saw the true richness of poor people. But this is about sexual impulses so i will save the sociological stuff for a later rant. I also kissed my first girl friend Noemi Ramirez. She went on to marry my good friend Guy Gutierrez. My memory of the relations between the sexes was that it was the type you make (older)teen movies about. It was not ( even though a very strict denominational school) focused on "don't" as much as "DO" I did more that year than any other until college. I got a great founding in Math and Biology and Spanish, and Literature, and enjoyed ( yes enjoyed! ) losing most of our football and basketball games. I enjoyed it because we tried...and no one had any expectations. And it was a great group of goofballs and knuckleheads ( 15 year olds, remember?) Then we ( a 5 man squad from East LA going against 35 - 50 member teams) actually won the little regional track meet. It was just like it was supposed to be. Our girlfriends played sports, and we all went to each other's games. We all played and teased, and flirted. But we weren't obsessed with sex and there are no regrets and there wasn't the difficulties it seems kids are faced with in the MTV generation and beyond.
man! I sound like an old guy!
This was not the norm of my school experience...but it is ironic you said remember 15. My 6,7,8 grades were not at all like that...they were what I am comparing that year to. The sexual permissiveness and tension at FIS was incredible, and I was actually afraid of going to the La Canada High school because of my involvement with S and D and R&R.
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